Published:  1st Mar 2017

Hiring A VA

Hiring A Virtual Assistant

Hey, thanks for joining me on this 7th edition of the podcast. I'm your host, Jason Brown, the co-founder of SERPWoo, coming to you from the SERPWoo studios, and on this podcast, I'm gonna do things little differently. I do not have a book that I read about marketing, that I'm gonna give you at the beginning of this podcast, and I don't have a business idea for the end of this podcast, so I'm just winging it and changing things up a little bit, just for this podcast, but we'll resume our normal flow on thew next podcast. But what I want to jump into is talking about hiring a freelancer, a virtual assistant, a part-time, full-time employee, whatever you want to make it, but as far as when it comes to hiring your first or choosing who to hire, that's what the topic of this podcast is about.

So this podcast is going to be a little bit shorter than the others. I'm going to try a short format to see if you guys were more responsive to that. Listening to a podcast for an hour can sometimes be a little overkill, so I'm going to try a shorter format and if you all like it, let me know, if you hate it let me know in the comments. So let's jump right into it.

It took me a long time to hire my first worker when I got started in business. I had these fears that nobody could do it as well as me, which, I still feel that, actually, for certain aspects of my business. Nobody can do it as well as me. What if I teach them something critical about my business and then they leave and go to my competitor? Or worse, become a competitor to me. So while we're working online, especially if your digital marker, knowing your secret sauce and knowing your contacts, your contracts, the way that you set things up is very, very important to you. I definitely know any affiliate space, and even in the SEO space, tons of people are ripping each other off anytime that they can get, so definitely having your moat, so to speak, around your business is definitely something to protect.

But when I did finally hire my first virtual assistant, I found myself really not knowing what to do, how to handle it, what task to give them, and over the years I've kind of learned what I want to look for and I've kind of got this gut instinct that now tells me. But the number one thing that you really need to know is, is you really need to understand what you're hiring for. A lot of people get busy, they think they need extra help, but they really don't know where they need to help. And even though they might think they know, they typically get it wrong.

You really have to hone in on what area you really need help on, and I'll give you a really clear example. I wanted help writing a book, and I went through a process where I thought, "I just need a Ghostwriter, I just need somebody to do it for me," because that was the hot craze, is to basically write a book, throw it up on Amazon, make money, have somebody else write it, don't ever touch it. I had never written a book. I have horrible spelling, horrible grammar. I didn't know how to do my chapters. I mean, I know what a chapter is, I know what an outline is, but is there like a template that I can just follow for say, a non-fiction book? Does the first chapter usually need to be this, and the last chapter of that? And is there a flow in between those chapters?

Those were all things I could not find information on so I went to Upwork and I found a couple people who were writers, and I basically wasted my time with them. I wasted my money, I wasted my time, didn't know what I want, didn't know how to communicate to them. And even though they sent me back quality articles that I could basically use as chapters in my book, it really wasn't later, found out it really wasn't what I needed. What I needed to do was actually have my hands involved in the book creation process, in the content creation process, but I didn't want to write everything that had to do with the chapter outline, or even the chapters, themselves. And what I ended up finding out was, after a long thought process of writing down on paper, and looking at the decision-making process, was I really needed somebody who was just a fact checker, a researcher, and a data entry type of person. I didn't really need a Ghostwriter.

And how that basically worked out for me, personally, on my needs, because your needs might be different, is that essentially, I picked a topic that I knew a lot about, which is self-discipline. Now I might not be a great book writer, I'm not a book writer at all. I'm not even a content creation person, but I know a lot about the topic of self-discipline, grit, and in other areas of life that involve being disciplined and staying focused, even if you're extremely busy. I know those topics.

So what I did was actually went on Upwork and I hired three people, and I wanted these three people to do research on self-discipline, on grit, on similar topics, because even though I know it and I could write it, I wanted to find somebody who understood it the way that I understood the topic. So what I did was I basically tasked these freelancers with the project, and I basically said, "Go out on the internet, find 30 websites that talk about self-discipline, and procrastination even." Procrastination was another topic that I gave another three freelancers. And I basically said, "Tell me the number one reason why people procrastinate. Tell me the number one reason why people don't have self-discipline."

And it wasn't for me to know the answer, because there's actually several answers, and my opinion might be one of those answers and somebody else's opinion might be a different one. But what I wanted to find was, one, I wanted to see what researcher that I was possibly going to hire, because I did pay for this gig, but it wasn't the actual, full gig. What they were going to find out on the internet, I already know what's out there. I want to know what they're going to find, because at the end, I don't want to handhold and babysit this freelancer. In the end, I don't want a freelancer who finds topics on procrastination that I don't necessarily agree with, in my personal opinion, to reflect in my book.

These freelancers went out and they collected, over several different websites, what the number one issue was with procrastination, or self-discipline, or grit. And they basically put it into an Excel sheet, and they basically went on Google, looked, found websites, read the websites, summarized the main reason, put it into an Excel sheet, the Excel sheet had the reason, had the author's name of the website or the article, where the article was at so I could go check it. And basically what I did was, at the end of the week, when I got all the Excel sheets back to me, I basically looked through the Excel spreadsheets, looked through them real quick, real glance, because I already knew what I was looking for. I already know what the number one answer is.

And I found a researcher who basically gave me the information that I liked. Two of them ... Actually, one of the three, typically what happens is one of the three ask a lot of questions, gets a lot of clarification, and I know that that might be a problem of me not being a great communicator, but I do not want, in managing this task, to rearrange who I am. Now that might sound selfish as a project manager, but I want to offload this. I want to find the freelancer who I don't have to babysit, I don't have to answer a thousand questions. They just get it, they get me, they get my style, and they get the answers correct.

Usually one of the three, they ask a ton of questions, they clarify stuff, I'm not rude to them, I answer all their questions, but I've already got a negative against this person. This is a person I've got a handhold. I congratulate them that they want clarification and they want to get this right, but ultimately, if I'm having to handhold you for two or three hours, and answering questions, it's probably not going to work out. Usually, one of the freelancers will get the project done in an hour, and I'm not saying that an hour is too little time, or that x amount of hours is too little or too much, but generally, I kind of look at that as two things: you have nothing else going on, I'm your only project, which, that could be a great thing, or you just quickly skim through things. Maybe you found a website who quickly skim through things, and maybe you didn't read the website.

Usually that person has the lower quality answers, so the person who turns it around real fast I'm usually skeptical of. I still read it, I still look it over. There's been one or two times the fastest person has had it perfect. The majority of time, not. So usually, the last freelancer, or at least one of them, if you've got more than three, they'll spend maybe a day or two on it, they'll maybe ask one or two questions, and they'll usually get it right. I'll skim through their spreadsheet, there might be 30 entries in the spreadsheet, none of them might be not really what I was looking for, but the other 21 were.

So I know that this is a freelancer who I don't have to handhold, they're going to take their time to read the websites, find the websites, make sure they're credible. It's not some fake news website, it's not some bunk website on some generic Drupal, article farm, blog farm, PBN. It's actually somebody who might have been a doctor, who might have been a professor at a higher education institute. It could be a professional white paper. The information I got was credible, that's when I'm getting to. They read it, they understand it, and they actually picked the reason. Because a lot of these sites will have multiple reasons why people procrastinate, but they pick the right reason, at least in my opinion, why people procrastinate, and that's very important because that's what I want to get across in my book anyway.

And the reason why I love that freelancer is because, one, they know how to find credible sources, it's not just a blogger page, which I've already mentioned. They've read it, now not necessarily meaning that because they took longer that they read it and comprehend it, but I am making that assumption. Most of the information that they found matched what I think is the number one reason. And basically what I built up in my mind is, this last person, they understand the topic now. I don't have to tell them to go research procrastination if I'm writing a procrastination eBook, because now they understand it, they've read 30 articles that came from credible sources. I don't have to make a second project. They learn procrastination because they've done it. I didn't have to handhold them, and they definitely agree with what I think is the number one reason, even though I didn't tell the freelancer that. They just were able to find it, pick up on it, and things just gel.

That's the freelancer I pick. And what I'll do, is because this person is usually not a ghostwriter, they're, again, just a data entry person, a researcher, a fact checker; I paid them a lower price. Usually that type of work is a lower price point, and they've basically made my eBook for me, because not every one of those article entries is going to be, personally, my number one thought about what makes people procrastinate. Remember, I said there's probably going to be nine that don't and 21 that do, and what ends up happening is this person has found all the information for me on these other articles, they found nine other reasons that really aren't the number one reason, in my personal opinion, but 21 that were.

And what I end up basically doing is, now I can look through that, and I can start making chapters, and even though I know a lot about self-discipline and procrastination and grit and so forth, it's always nice to have these other websites that have a different point of view, that convey a different message because, then in my eBook I can point to that. I can say that this doctor at the University of Kentucky has spent 12 years researching procrastination, and here's his findings. And even though they don't align with why I think, it's good to have that, it's good to share that with your reader. So now I can start making my chapters, and if my book is about procrastination and the reasons why people procrastinate, now I've got my number one reason as probably the end of the book, or the first of the book, as far as chapters are concerned.

And then, I've got these other reasons as other chapters, and then I've got this bonus material that I can probably throw in, and I just basically start making notes. I make my chapter outline be the other reasons, the other nine reasons, plus mine. I can start filling in little paragraphs that go in each one of those chapters based on what the freelancer gave me, because again, they've summarized it for me. And then I can go to each of those pages and pull out more information that maybe that freelancer has missed, and I can start outlining my book really well. I can start writing paragraphs in my chapters, I know what my chapters should be, and I didn't pay a lot for it.

Now even though that is some work on my end, it's very quick work. I mean, I'm basically checking spreadsheets really quickly on who I'm going to pick. I already know the topic somewhat, and now I can start breaking up my chapters, I can start outlining, I can start putting at least a couple paragraphs into those chapters, I can look at the legit and information sources and pull more material, and basically what I end up having is an eBook that is basically chapters, maybe it's 9 or 10 chapters of different reasons why people procrastinate, and each of those chapters only has three or four paragraphs in it. Very quick and easy work. Then what I do is I go back onto a freelance site, like Upwork, I post another gig, and I'm basically looking for a ghostwriter now. I'm looking for somebody who, again, could be a fact-checker, also a data in a data entry person. I could go back to my original freelancer but I'm kind of looking for that ghostwriter person.

What I do is, when I find the ghostwriter that I want to work with, I'm going to give them what I've already created based on my first freelancer. Now they basically get this PDF document that lists all my chapters, that lists the three or four paragraphs, and they instantly know what I want, and they can go in and start filling it out. I'm not promoting filler content just to have a page of extra words in it, but they can basically now start filling out that chapter. They know what I want. They know the information I've already received. They know how it should be in the chapter.

Now they can go and expand those three or four paragraphs per chapter, to possibly four or five pages per chapter now, and I'm paying less money, because I'm not having to hold hand that ghostwriter, I'm not having to dictate to them what each chapter should be and how to find their information. They've got, basically, cut and paste directions, and they just need to fill it out. And they might have to do a little research on their own, they might have to ask me a couple questions, but I've essentially made it hands-free and giving them all the direction that they basically need to fill out the rest of the chapter, the rest of the eBook for me, and proofread it, make sure that everything is grammatically correct, and I'm paying less money, because half of the work, or more than half the work, is pretty much done for him.

Now I know I've talked a lot about an eBook, so some of you all might be thinking, "Well how does this apply, and in other businesses?" And I'll get more into freelancer selection in this next topic area, because I really didn't go over that, with the freelancer or the ghostwriter, I just kind of gave you an example of a task that I would give the freelancer. But if I go to another area, let's say I'm hiring for somebody to be a junior pay-per-click specialist to help me out with some pay-per-click accounts. When I go to Upwork, or I'm hiring off another platform, which, by the way, I pretty much use Upwork only these days. I'm really big about not wanting to handhold people, and I'm really big about not being the person who's the crash test dummy for them, meaning vetting them to make sure that they know their work.

When I going to Upwork, I want to automatically choose the person that has more than one hundred hours. I know that sounds unfair, that you can find great people less than that. Sometimes if the price point doesn't match what I'm willing to pay, or there's too few people to pick from, I'll pick somebody that has at least one hour work. I always go for somebody that's got at least a 90% success rate. People that fall in the 84 and 68, they might be great people, but somebody might have done them wrong, but I don't want to have that happen on my project.

I definitely want to pick people I don't have to handhold. I definitely want to pick people that understand the project, so I'm picking those 100 hours. I'm picking the 90% success rate. I don't want to have to have somebody not understand what I'm typing out to them, so I'm generally going to pick people who are native English speakers. Now, that's nothing against people who are not native English speakers, but I can tell you this: I've worked with several people from India or from Pakistan. It seems to generally be those countries, I'll type out exactly what I need, and I never get it back.

And that could just purely not be a communication problem, it just could just be a cultural thing, but I tend to stick with people who definitely speak English, that understand slang I use, who understand what I'm trying to get at so I don't have to explain it four or five times when the project is not right. That's just me, personally. Sometimes I'll pick the country to be United States, but what I've found is there are a lot of native English speaking people that live in other countries like Thailand, so now I leave that blank.

When I'm going through the selection of all the people on the page after the filtered results come up, I'm putting in keywords like I'm looking for an AdWords conversion specialist, or AdWords conversion, or AdWords this, or Bing that, or Facebook Ads, and you'll come up with tons of people that don't match. They've got the word, "Facebook Ads," in their profile or, "AdWords Ads," but then they've also got words like they're a Ruby developer, and that they're a copywriter, and that they're this, this, and this. They're basically a jack-of-all-trades on their profile, and those are people I'm just skipping, because I'm hiring for an AdWords person. And I'm gonna tell you right now, it's gonna be rare to find somebody that's great at AdWords, who's also a great copywriter, who's also a great conversion specialist, who's also a great Ruby coder, who's also whatever, whatever, whatever.

I'm finding the person that has nothing else, almost, in their profile, except that they do AdWords, and that they've done it for years. And then I look at their job history, they've actually been employed as that. I don't care if they've graduated college; I do look at their test score, if they've got a test score there, but I'm not really looking at that either. If you are honest, and you've worked at a place for four or five years doing AdWords, and then I look in your project history and you've done a lot of projects with AdWords, and you've got four or five stars on them and you've earned money on it, I don't care about a test. Screw that. Upwork is not the authority on testing for AdWords.

I'm looking for the person that's just what they do. Maybe they do Bing also, and Facebook, that's great, but I'm looking for an ad person, and that's all I want. If you do Ruby, if you do HTML, if you do blog networks, if you do SEO, I'm probably not going to hire your ass. I just want the AdWords person, so that's what I'm looking for. I'm also looking for somebody who's in my price point range. I don't mind hiring people who are in a higher price point range, or at least talking to them, because a lot of times those freelancers will actually accept a lower rate.

So once I narrow it down to four or five freelancers that I invite to the project, I'm going to give them lots of questions. The questions I give them cannot be answered yes or no, at all. They're very specific. I ask them to actually put a word, a certain word at the very top of their response, so I know it's not an automated canned or robot type of response. Usually, that word is like a color, like the color yellow. If I go through the response and the word yellow is not there, I trash that one too. I'm looking through the responses to my questions, and my questions, again, they can't say yes or no. It's going to be a specific question, and I might say something like, "Tell me what other projects that you've done with AdWords, and show me that as an image, and then point out how you actually increased a metric." And it might be something random like click-through rate, or it might be conversions or it might be conversions, or it might be conversion rate. How do you negative match? Here's a list of keywords that were in the search query report, and it might be 50 keywords, and then I say what the client does and what the client was betting on, as far as a keyword, and then I give them just like I sample ad.

I say, "Go through this list of 50. Tell me which two words that you would negative match." So let's say the sample data I gave them was all about a sales forecasting tool, a tool for forecasting sales in businesses. I'm going to give them the keyword that they bet on, I'm going to give them an example ad, I'm going to give them a hundred or 50. The number doesn't really matter. I'm going to give them a list of possible search queries, and I want them to negative match it. It should be very easy for somebody who's experienced in AdWords. You do not need to know everything about this business and their history. This business just needs sales, they need leads, they need conversions. Here's their ad, here's the keyword that they bet on, here's what got matched to it. Any common sense person who is a marketer and has done this for years are going to know the keywords that aren't going to help, and in the middle of all those keywords I want to throw in some junk keywords like weather forecasting, Monday's weather forecast, what is the weather in Miami? Like, I'm going to sprinkle that through there, and even though it's sales forecasting, I might even put sales forecasting job, sales forecasting tool review.

Review is kind of a weird keyword, that's why I like to throw that in there. It's kind of on the cusp of being maybe a lead, or a higher frontal research word, but the jobs, for sure, you better be picking that in your response when you send it back to me. And I try to find the people who hit that 100%. The review when is just one the slip them up, to see how they respond. And if they do put it in the response, I'm going to question. I'm going to be like, "Well why don't you think that this could turn into lead?" And I want to see the quality of their response. That's how I pick people.

Usually, after I do that task, I'm left with one or two people, maybe out of four or five, who passed the test. Sometimes I've done these and had nobody pass the test. Whoever I do end up picking, I try to negotiate with them too, I don't want to pay their advertised rate. That's just me, personally. Whatever their advertised rate is, I'm going to say, "Hey, can you take 10% less?" A lot of y'all might think I'm a dick for doing that, but hey, this is business. I'm trying to make money, that's why I run a business. And whatever their rate is, though, I'm only going to hire them if I'm making three times that. If the client is paying me $60 an hour, I'm only going to hire somebody that's $20 an hour or less. If the client is paying me $100 an hour, I'm only going to pick people who are $33 or less an hour, because I've got to make money too.

I got to make sure I pick the right person, that they're reliable, and once I hire somebody and they accept the job, I on purposely give them projects randomly throughout the day to see how responsive they are. It's not to be mean, it's not to be rude, but a lot of people say, "Yeah, yeah, I'll be there when you need me. I'm available 24/7." You send them a task, you need a good turn around on it. Now I'm respectful of everybody's time, especially a freelancer, but if I give you a task and you tell me that you're always available and always on, and I give you a task and it takes you 3 hours to respond back to me, and that response is a question, and then I respond to that question, and then you get started and it takes you four hours to complete it when it's really just a one hour job.

And you billed me one hour, but it took you four hours to complete it because you were out doing other things, you're probably not going to be the right fit for me, personally, because I need to know that this is getting done. If I assign you project, the last thing I need is for you to sit on it, then end up in a car wreck or have a brown out with your electricity, or have some kind of random issue and you don't finish it, and then I've got egg on my face with the client, who expected it the next day and now it's not done. So I always test these people with random things to see how responsive they are, how quick they get to things, because to me, I think it's a courtesy to me, the buyer.

Another tactic that I like to do is after I assign you a project and we're communicating daily throughout the day on Skype or on Upwork, or any other type of tool like email, and I know that you're working on that project right now, I might stop you on purpose and say, "Hey we need to change direction. We need to work on this other separate project now for this other separate client," or, "The project you're working on, we actually need to add a few things or take something away unexpectedly." And again, I don't do this to be rude or mean to the freelancer, but I'm trying to analyze how well they take stress and how well they take direction at the last minute, because there's always unexpected emergencies when you're dealing with clients, last minute changes, something new comes up for another client and you've got to switch priorities. I want to see how that freelancer handles stress, because even though that doesn't sound like a stressful event, it is somewhat taxing, it is somewhat stressful to switch gears, to go back and redo something on something you're currently working on, or change direction to a totally separate project.

I want to see how well they respond to that. I want to see how they handle that stress. I want to see what questions they ask. And more importantly, when they jump on this second project immediately, how do they handle finishing up the first project where they left off on when they come back to it? Is it something that I have to prompt them for? "Hey, go back to the first project now," or, "Hey, did you finish that a day later?" I need to know how they handle that stress, because dealing with clients is stressful enough as it is, already, and I really need somebody who isn't going to tell me, "No, I'm not doing that. No, I cannot handle that." "I'm too busy, I don't know what I'm doing."

I want to make sure that they're organized enough that they can go back to that first project, or circle back to the original state once the change has been made. And I'm really trying to feel out, "Do you handle stress well?" Now that doesn't mean that if you handle it horribly that you're going to get fired, but it does tell me more about how I need to manage you and how I need to handle you when things happen, because clients are going to come back and say, "This is not right. This isn't what I asked for," even through you've clearly got documentation and it is, they're still gonna want that change. Even if the client was wrong, they're still going to want that.

If I bought a brand new car and it was supposed to be red, and they give me a blue car, and I messed up and put blue on the paperwork; as a customer I still want a red car. Now maybe that's not the car dealer's fault for me putting the wrong information, but as a customer I still want a red car, and these are how your clients are going to be. And it's going to be up to you, if you decide, if you allow that change to happen or not. But if you've got clients like that and that happens repeatedly, you either need to fire the client, or you need to swallow it and make the change and bill them for it. But either way, you need people underneath you who can handle stress, who don't piss off clients if they're client-facing, and work well and chill with you and the client and the whole entire process.

So I throw out random changes sometimes just to see how they handle the stress, and how they operate within an environment. As we round out about 35 minutes so far on this podcast, I got one last tip for you, and that is: if you've only got one freelancer, something bad's going to happen at some point. People, like these freelancers, we're all human. We're going to have kids, we're going to have lunch breaks, we're going to get sick. Your freelancer is just going to have a problem. Maybe it's a miscommunication problem and they're late on something. If you've got three or four freelancers, but they only do one specific task each and they're separate, not as a team, but they're separate on their projects, that's really one freelancer per project. You're going to be in the same situation.

And when they fail, or they don't hit goals or deadlines, it's going to be up to you, as the owner, to step in and do that work. And many of you are fine with that, that's great. If you want to be more hands-off though, you need to hire a second freelancer, because your first freelancer doesn't necessarily have to be working eight hours a day. Maybe they're only working four, maybe the only working two, maybe they are working eight. Your second freelancer, though, doesn't have to work a full day to be a manager. They just need to be somebody who can run the project and, if possible, be your failover if the first freelancer fails in some way.

I'll give you a good example. I had a freelancer that was doing some some pay-per-click marketing for me. They were a junior, so I was basically giving them tasks, giving them direction, telling them what they needed to do based on what the client was telling me. And I had their work scheduled for them a day ahead of time, because this person lived in another country, in a different time zone, so I had to give them their work the day ahead of time. I assigned their work out to them, very easy work, should have took them three or four hours. It was multiple projects within one client account.

They ended up getting sick, and this was due the next day, and I had to step in and do the work. Now I don't mind doing the work, I don't think I'm above doing the work, but I actually had other things I truly needed to be doing, like working on my business and doing other things. So that experience taught me that I needed to go back to Upwork, and I needed to find a freelancer who met all the qualifications that I listed out earlier: 100 hours worked, 90% success, native English-speaking. Again, that's my preference. I'm not trying to offend anybody out there who's not, just the communication works better, for me at least, as a native English speaker. They've got projects, they've got good reviews, they've earned money, and I want to pick somebody a little bit more senior than the first person I picked, so I'm okay paying them a little bit more money. Again, I told you before, I try to pick somebody that's at a third of what I'm making. So with my $60 example that was 20, with 100 that was $33.

I don't mind paying somebody a little bit more money, so if I find a senior AdWords person, and that's all they do, they're not a Ruby coder, yada, yada, yada, same rules apply. I don't mind paying them $50 an hour, because what's going to happen is this person isn't going to work four hours a day or eight hours a day, at least not on average. And basically, what I want to do is make this person be the first freelancer's manager, their supervisor. And I'm going to give the task to the junior each day, still, I don't leave that up to the supervisor, but I CC or copy the supervisor in all email communications and task to the junior, that way the supervisor knows what the junior should be doing, the supervisor can check in on the on the freelancer throughout the day randomly, maybe once or twice to see if they've got questions, if it got concerns, if they need help, if they're going to be on time and on task.

And if a freelancer comes back and says, "Hey, I'm sick with malaria, my electric's out," because maybe they're using their phone to text and communicate, or they don't understand something. Like maybe I gave them at a task to do mobile bid modifications, and then they've never done it before, and they don't know how to do it correctly. They can ask that supervisor, and in theory, that supervisor should only technically be working one hour a day. Now if that freelancer has a problem, their electric's out, they're sick, they've got a sudden emergency, then that supervisor, at the higher rate, can work the four hours to get the project done. But because they're senior, and they're better and they're more experienced, it really shouldn't take them four hours, maybe only takes them two hours because they know all the shortcuts in AdWords editor and so forth.

So what ends up happening is, that should only be a one-time event. I'm still profitable, because on average, that supervisor has only had to step in and take on the full workload very few times. At one hour a day, I'm also still profitable. The math just works out that way. If I bill somebody on an hourly basis, $60 an hour, and I'm paying my junior 15 to 20, and I bill for five hours, and then one hour at $50, I'm still profitable. It just works out that way. And then that way, I'm not bogged down with handling the juniors' questions, if they have any.

If there's a sudden emergency, and I happen to be out of town or I'm on a client call, that supervisor can step in and do it, and it should be a good gel, a good team. That supervisor's just checking in, they're working as a project manager, they have very few hours, but it's easy hours for them, and they can step in as my backup as needed, and on average, over time, I'm still going to be profitable if they do step in. So that's my last tip for you, and I hope you love the show. If you got any questions or comments leave them below, and see you next time. Thanks.

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